I appreciate the point that having the mental acuity to observe one’s self in a moment as they are without judgement is akin to observing “reality”
Where the comparison falls down for me lies in how I define reality and science though
Reality - shared truth
Science - peer reviewed facts
Individuals observations during meditation cannot be verified full stop an argument could be made that without abstraction and outside observation the could be studied and quantified.
Thank you for your thoughts I mean no offence and look forward to any perspective that compels you to believe otherwise:)
Op’s analogy isn’t about verifying meditation experiences as scientific facts, but about how both Zen and science are rigorous, disciplined studies of reality, just through different lenses. Zen isn’t about abstraction or quantification; it’s about direct, unmediated experience (and “peer review” happens with sangha and the teacher). The comparison is poetic, not literal. It’s kinda highlighting that both paths require clarity, humility, and a willingness to see things as they are, not as we wish them to be.
Thank you for your response 🙏 it was enlightening my next quandary into zen meditation will take longer than 3 minutes 😅 sometimes in my observation of how things are I lack the perspective to grasp the poetry presented but it’s always a pleasant feeling having your eyes opened to it!
Welcome ☺️ if you’re really interested, I frankly recommend trying meditation rather than try to understand the theory. The Way App from Henry Shukman is pretty good.
I’m back and have decided it’s apples to oranges
I appreciate the point that having the mental acuity to observe one’s self in a moment as they are without judgement is akin to observing “reality”
Where the comparison falls down for me lies in how I define reality and science though
Reality - shared truth
Science - peer reviewed facts
Individuals observations during meditation cannot be verified full stop an argument could be made that without abstraction and outside observation the could be studied and quantified.
Thank you for your thoughts I mean no offence and look forward to any perspective that compels you to believe otherwise:)
Op’s analogy isn’t about verifying meditation experiences as scientific facts, but about how both Zen and science are rigorous, disciplined studies of reality, just through different lenses. Zen isn’t about abstraction or quantification; it’s about direct, unmediated experience (and “peer review” happens with sangha and the teacher). The comparison is poetic, not literal. It’s kinda highlighting that both paths require clarity, humility, and a willingness to see things as they are, not as we wish them to be.
Thank you for your response 🙏 it was enlightening my next quandary into zen meditation will take longer than 3 minutes 😅 sometimes in my observation of how things are I lack the perspective to grasp the poetry presented but it’s always a pleasant feeling having your eyes opened to it!
Welcome ☺️ if you’re really interested, I frankly recommend trying meditation rather than try to understand the theory. The Way App from Henry Shukman is pretty good.