The reason why student debt is basically unheard of in Denmark since college is free (although to make that happen, the Danish government poses high taxation towards citizens like they do in order to maintain stable social security nets like subsidised healthcare and public housing, also why they have less homelessness).
Mainly Danish, Swiss and European citizens are eligible to study without stressing over student debt upon graduation. It stems from this: Danish government is more on for the people while American government is more on caring about themselves plus nepotism on the side (MORE & HIGHER TAXES TOO ON TOP OF THAT).
It won’t fail if implemented in the US. The US is convinced that bettering its people is libtard stupidity.
There’s also the matter of how every institution here exists to extract wealth profitably. It’s not just libtarded to invest in citizens at a less than explosive profit return, it also undermines the system of exploitation that needs people dumb and cheap to hire.
It starts feeling like the government thinks education is dangerous and only gets in the way of the ruling class.
It worked in the US for many years…quietly. Ask Boomers, Gen-X, and probably Millenials how much their University of Puerto Rico education cost them, and you’ll mostly get a big fat $0. For a long time, UPR price per credit was closely tied to federal Pell grants. The grant check, which applied a vast majority of students, would cover credits and books most of the time.
Yeah that is what I said…
I was agreeing with you and providing a US based example.
Because conservatives/regressives who elect felons, rapists, and pedophiles said so.
Someone asked why we don’t have bullet trains and I think my answer there is equally applicable here:
Rampant corruption redirects almost all federal resources to contractors and corporations.
Works in Germany as well (with a very low fee, nearly free).
We believe that education is a basic human right. The human rights are equal for all humans (listen, Usamericans: humans, not just “citizens”), therefore it must not happen that low income can hinder it. And that’s also the reason why German universities regularly accept a good number of students from all over the world.
Why it “works”? Well it’s simply the government’s job to make it work. We, the people pay them for doing their job. As you might know, or not, in a democracy the people are the highest authority.
We believe that education is a basic human right. The human rights are equal for all humans (listen, Usamericans: humans, not just “citizens”), therefore it must not happen that low income can hinder it. And that’s also the reason why German universities regularly accept a good number of students from all over the world.
For full transparency, Germany does have tuition fees for non-EU students. Though at 650-1050€ per semester, they are still lower than most US tuition fees. The reasoning is basically that universities are financed with taxes and if you are likely to never pay German income tax, you have to make up for that. In an ideal world we wouldn’t need that and I don’t really like it but I can somewhat understand that the state wants to prevent people from coming over for free education and then immediately leaving.
at 650-1050€ per semester, they are still lower than most US tuition fees.
Ha, there’s that understated German language. That price is a tiny fraction of US tuition.
More like the careful phrasing of someone who didn’t want someone to jump out of the bushes with “Well aaaaactually, if you live in my state, go to a university three states over, are born on February 29th and promise to give the dean a blowjob every Friday, you only pay 1200 USD which, by today’s exchange rate is a few cents lower than your upper bound.”
As predicted, you have a sibling comment doing exactly that.
Sometimes I think the internet was a mistake.
the real cost of college for most students is closer to $10K a year.
did you even go to college? or are you just ragebaiting yourself over sticker prices?
the real cost of college for most students is closer to $10K a year.
So you agree that the 650 to 1050€ figure in my post is lower than your $10K? Yes? Good.
did you even go to college? or are you just ragebaiting yourself over sticker prices?
I have a BSc and MSc in computer science from one of the top universities in Germany. I paid about 4000€ in total because I was unlucky to have my first few semesters fall into the time that had the 500€ per semester tuition. Someone who started a bit after me would come out under 2000€. Again, not per year but in total for two degrees.
if you wanted scholarship you should have studied harder man.
or maybe been better at sucking the dean’s cock.
Only 17% of students who attend college pay sticker price. The vast vast majority are receiving substantial aid to lower those prices.
but hey, don’t let the facts of reality get in the way of your hyperbolic doomer narrative, where you are forced to suck cock.
Sure, and most people don’t pay “full price” at the hospital. Yet health insurance is insanely expensive in itself. So yes almost everybody gets some sort of discount, but it’s usually a drop in the bucket. $1000 “scholarships” might be a 1% discount.
you’re just spouting lies and bullshit.
these are all numbers we can look up, and the statistics aren’t as bleak wish they were.
but again don’t let reality get in the way of your hyperbolic bitterness towards the world, I guess.
a minority of people get fucked by the healthcare and education systems, and often it’s to some degree their own fault or ignorance. the median medical debt is $2,000. just because a minority of people it’s like 200,000, doesn’t mean that is a general condition for the vast majority of people.
But hey, who am I to get in the way of your ignorant rage?
Yes, we actually don’t know the numbers that are common over there, but I have heard that students get in debt for a huge part of their lifetime - which we consider a scandal and a shame for a country.
The numbers can be pretty crazy - but yeah it’s a complex hellscape of excessive prices combined with student aid designed to extract the most from every student.
My state is covering tuition at its public universities for people below a certain income. After federal subsidies. But you still need to cover room and board. Meanwhile the list price is higher than the Ivy League school I went to many years ago.
But the school my youngest really wanted, has huge subsidies almost half the cost, yet wanted us to come up with $50k/year.
But there’s also a cultural thing where college became almost expected, regardless of what you wanted to do in life. If you only look at it as a financial investment there are many scenarios where it will never pay off or the desired job is too low an income to pay it off. Of course people complain about poor choices in spending when the real problem is thinking of college merely as a financial investment. But college is a good thing if it helps people learn and think, regardless whether there is a direct payoff
The numbers are on google dude.
The average student debt is 30K. Most students pay about 10K a year for college here, because most students get a lot of financial aid. that isn’t a lifetime of debt. nor is it crippling. that student goes off and typically gets a 50-70K job, and pays off the debt in 5-10 years. But the media isn’t going to report that.
They are going to report the kid that has 300K in debt, and a degree in English, and can’t get a job outside of Starbucks, because that is DRAMATIC. Those people do exist, but they are a STARK minority, and frankly, having personally known some of those people, they are really really dumb and they make bad choices, even when better choices are available to them. Usually out of being stubborn single-minded asses. They usually get there from a series of bad choices, and they cry ‘innocent’.
I’ve also known people with modest debts, who didn’t pay them back because they want to party and ‘live it up’, and yeah 10 years later they are massive. Well… that’s how debt works. You need to pay it back. I am in my 40s and I meet regularly meet people who have never paid a dime back on their student loans after 20 years, who how have six figures of student debt.
A lot of Americans are very very bad with money. They buy things they can’t afford, and get angry at everyone else about their debts.
plenty of kids in america get cheap uni fees. You just don’t hear about them because that’s not dramatic.
The college I went to now charges a 100K sticker price, but when I went it was 30K, but I only paid about 5-6K a year. Had I gone today it would have been entire free. For my graduate degree I went to Canada because they offered me 20K a year to attend.
Many of my friends got free educations in the USA, often because they went to less prestigious schools and those schools were willing to pay them to go there. My nephew just got into college, and several of his friends did this, so they are going to school for free, rather than go 200K into debt to go to a fancier school.
The people who get shafted the most are kids from higher income families, who are not academically gifted or who can’t get a sports scholarship. if your family is making 150K+ a year and you’re a B student, yeah you’re going to pay full freight. But truth is your parents can probably afford it, even if it means they have to skip vacations for a few years.
It would absolutely work.
Forcing people into crippling debt, however, helps create the indentured servitude class. The in debt students and future workers are less likely to waste time on stupid things like protesting or revolt.
Educational debt is one of the prongs of system rigging and the elites in America prefer it this way.
Elite owned media keeps pumping out the bs of affordability and scaring people with trans nonsense and the cycle keeps on going.If Americans could wake the f up it could change quickly, but history has shown that they won’t.
It also helps push people away from furthering their education. If its just another bill to pay, why bother when you can get just as good a job without it?
I would love so much to go to college, but yeah, at this point in my life it becomes a business question, rather than about personal betterment. Everything is a desperate “Return on Investment” calculation anymore.
Yeah, it definitely pushed me away. I can do art and gamedev without a degree (but haven’t made it yet for a plethora of reasons), but you need a bachelor’s if you want any hope of escaping the country. Drat! Cornered.
I teach myself stuff all the time, but it doesn’t come with a paper that says I put myself deep in debt to do it, so, I’m automatically disqualified for “good” jobs. :(
It requires two things America doesn’t want to do.
Taxing the rich and nationalizing an industry.
nationalizing an industry.
Not even. Every state has a public university system. Many of which used to be free. It’s as simple as investing enough that they be free to state residents again.
Let the private universities continue as they want. Some people will use them but they’ll need to compete against free
It’s not, because public universities are price gouging.
State governments have direct control over their states public university system, including how much they charge
Not enough control, clearly.
But thank you. Also feels like another argument in favor of nationalizing them.
And counting education as more than a just money extraction device imposed on the populous.
Americans are selfish assholes, it is just a fact. I have lived here almost 50 years and that’s all there is to it
Why is American culture so selfish, though? Humans are just animals and are easily influenced. “Culture” is a continuously moving target. What are the sources that have had the most influence on Americas population over the last 20-80 years?
As a foreigner who was heavily influenced by American culture up until getting cable news in my room and watching fox news as a teenager in 2001, the year I was studying modern history and its propaganda, I would argue the root cause is Americas business and political leadership. Millions of people have expected mask-off fascism from America far longer than Trump’s been relevant. Why did those people come to that conclusion long ago?
Yeah I’m not saying it’s all their fault either, and I am just as much of a product of that culture it’s inescapable. I would agree with you there, but from the start we have always loved a story about someone coming from nothing, it’s a story we have been telling ourselves over and over in this country, and while it happens it requires a great deal of support around you and that is never mentioned by anyone. It has gone way downhill since Reagan I would say, the 80s was just a supercharged consumerism culture here, which pits people against each other because when you have your neighbors competing against each other over who has the biggest house or boat or nicest car or whatever, they are spending spending spending. Lifestyles of the rich and famous, Cribs, celebrity worship, all that junk is to blame too
That line of thinking is the backbone of us propaganda.
America tried to make college free by guaranteeing free grant money for college. The colleges then suddenly needed to up the tuition fees setting us back to square one.
Step 1: Give everyone a free dollar to add to their lunch budget. Step 2: Lunch starts to cost $1 more.
“needed”
US is a classist society. They want to keep a large % of the population in poverty so that there’s a large base of workers to exploit. The rich are more than willing to pay for their own kids’ schools but not everyone’s. Keep in mind that over 60% of the US has a bachelors degree- twice that of Denmark/Germany. The US has more wealth in general but still, that’s a lot more schools than just the ones the rich kids go to. The reason we have so many more people going to college is that during deindustrialization, the workers were not protected. The government did nothing to help workers find new jobs or retrain. It was on the individual to figure out how to survive. People were told to go to college to attain a middle class lifestyle. Surprise, a classist society will keep you in the working class regardless of how educated you are.
you’re wrong. only 35% of adults over 25 have a bachelors degree or higher.
50% is if you include ‘some college’ which means people who went but have no degree, or have an associates or other trade school/post-secondary level education.
no idea where you are getting 60% from, unless you’re talking about certain states where most of the educated folks live.
For any question about “why is this extra bad in the United States?”, racism is probably a big factor. There’s a book “Dying of Whiteness” that’s pretty horrifying. Some people would literally rather suffer and die personally than let black people have nice things.
It’s not the only factor, but it’s a big one.
Pick an issue in the US and it’s probably because of xenophobia of some flavor (racism, bigotry, etc) or money. Often both.
For the epstein class it’s only ever about money - they make up the racism/bigotry to get poor people to support their grift.
Not to say they aren’t racist/bigoted, but to them, it’s just a tool to get the money.
The other is rampant corruption, look at student loans right now, even federal. The amount of corruption, cruelty in the system is staggering.
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Does the EU have free college and access across the union?
This is not mandated at EU level afaik. Though I found this compare page. Though I’m not sure, what these number include. For example germany is listed as free, though you pay I think between 300 and 400€ per semester. Though that includes a public transport ticket for all of germany (Deutschlandticket). And of course no housing included.
A ton of reasons. Among them: capitalist/military extremism. Private sector profits and “”“defense”“” are treated as holy, so the profits of the education sector and of weapons manufacturers need to be protected. The completely out of control military expenditure is one large reason why Americans can’t have many nice things that other countries have (education, healthcare, etc.) as it sucks so much of the national budget.
You don’t understand American politics until you understand American racism.
Plenty of Americans would rather die of a treatable disease than have one penny of their hard-earned taxes go to a black person’s healthcare.
The American experiment with socialism died the instant it could no longer legally exclude black peopde.
Yes, there’s a lot of that too, but I don’t think that the American experiment with socialism died because of that or that it’s even dead.
I find that things that don’t make sense in American history and politics suddenly become perfectly rational when you consider racism.
And if you look at conservative attacks on social welfare policy, it is often and most effectively done simply be associating welfare with “undeserving” black people. Reagan’s cadillac “welfare queen” was racially coded, as was the “young bucks” eating steaks with food stamps (steak is a food, go figure).
This is the Southern Strategy, how the Republican Party flipped confederate slave states from D to R after the passage of civil rights.
If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you. ― Lyndon B. Johnson
Reminds me of this tweet/meme I still remember. Something like:
“Oh it’s fine that we just rolled out another $6bil aircraft carrier, but mention that people should get healthcare or education and suddenly Grandpa’s pulling out his fkin abacus.”
XD
Haha, so true!
American who moved to Denmark (though I haven’t yet studied here at university, just language schools).
It would work in the US just fine, except that it wouldn’t funnel money from 18 year old kids taking out loans to rich people’s pockets.
My overall tax burden is only a little higher (3.5-4%) than it was in the US. And for that I get healthcare, university, significantly better working conditions and QoL all around, and a society I’m proud of instead of ashamed of.
Big recommend, though I don’t consider the language easy
My overall tax burden is only a little higher (3.5-4%) than it was in the US.
Does that also take into consideration not having to pay insurance premiums for basic healthcare?
I had a really sweet situation where I didn’t pay for healthcare. With almost any other situation in the US I’m sure it would’ve been net cheaper here
I’ll tell you what’s at the bottom of it. If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.
Lyndon B. Johnson
