I ended up grinding as coarse as I ever have for pourover, 6.1 on an Ode 1 with gen 2 burrs, and targeting a 3:45 total brew time with a V60 using the standard Hario filters, 40 second bloom. I’m getting a pretty balanced cup. The cocoa is still there as the backbone. Those tart red fruit notes dropped down to a low roar but they’re still present. Not a ton of sweetness, but what’s there is the best accent. B&W lists peach as a flavor note, which I can see, but to my palate it’s more floral.

As a natural process coffee I’d expected it to be a bit wilder. It’s subtle. Drinks a little more like a dark roast than I’d expected. It’s out of character from what I usually get from B&W (I bought a coffee they call Gummy Shark at the same time that is wild) but solid as a rock.

I’ll keep adjusting this until I’m out, but all in all I consider this a win.

Yes, it is a gen 1 Ode with the gen 2 burrs.

My understanding is the internals aren’t changed, so we’re grinding pretty differently. My usual range is 3.0 to 4.2 for pourover, definitely on the finer side from what I’ve seen. I would go coarser if I did dark roast V60 pourovers, but I favor French press or Moka for dark roast.

It’s likely our pourover techniques have some dramatic differences. For reference I just did two test runs on a medium roast Guji I’m trying to get rid of, one on 4.0 and one on 6.0, that finished at 2:35 and 2:15, respectively. V60 with the bleached white tabbed Hario filters, so reasonably quick but not Sibarist. I do prioritize keeping the bed moving for the entire brew, with the kettle tip low and a full five pours for one cup, so it gets water through quickly.

I don’t have one, but it’s been on my wish list for a while. I taught a friend to brew on one, strangely enough, and the added control was interesting, but I never got around to buying one for myself. I don’t usually find myself wanting that versatility but coincidentally would have liked it on this cup for a full immersion bloom.

I’ll update you once I feel I’ve gotten everything I can out of the coffee. I’m confident it has more to give, at least more clarity. I’m very happy with what I’m now getting out of B&W’s standard decaf, I don’t think I’d have correctly recognized it as decaf if I tasted blind. Whether that’s on my palate or the coffee I’m not sure. Probably a little bit of both.

I was surprised it took so long. I don’t have much experience yet with EA decaf. This was actually as coarse as I typically go on pourover, 4.2 on an Ode with the gen 2 burrs. It didn’t stall, which is great, but I usually target about 3 minutes even and this finished at 4:15. It was only a little overextracted, I’d have been happy with it in a coffee shop, so I’ll probably target a longer brew than usual?

It’s nice to get to use the whole grinder for once.

Probably for the best. The mug and I have a comfortable agreement but I can’t be held responsible for what it gets up to when I’m not around.

This is conjecture, but I suspect the tighter settings are necessary to zero the grinder but produce too many fines to be valuable for the user.

A high quality grinder like this is the second biggest improvement you can make to your coffee, first being grinding fresh at all. You’re going to get flavors from your coffee you can’t get otherwise. Timemore grinders are incredible, they cut corners without sacrificing quality in the cup. Everything in pourover past what you now have, except debatably a powered grinder, offers diminishing returns. I suspect you’ll really enjoy it.

I’m not sure my coffee station is the most aesthetically beautiful, but it is very practical. From here pourover V60 or knockoff Chemex, Moka, and French press are all at the ready. The Brim is more often used for wine these days.

The biggest improvement from where I started was adding a layer to the countertop storage. Coffee machines, grinders, and kettles are a lot taller than most of the other tools I routinely use, so placing say a Moka pot on the counter next to an espresso machine leaves a lot of empty airspace. I could put it in a cabinet and have a clean counter, but coffee has enough space in my life that I like having it out on the counter. This is mostly self explanatory; the Maxwell House tin holds a few random tools.

Looking at my setup now, I want to build a small hardwood shelf to line the back wall of everything with two 10cm shelves up top and one larger general purpose level on the bottom, tall enough to fit the French press underneath.

In the wine box I do keep a small stash of pre-ground decaf since grinding coffee at night is unpleasantly loud. The panda cup is to hold my Moka pot insert to add coffee if I want to start the brew with boiling water, which I’ve largely gotten away from.

Above this is normal kitchen cabinet space, which holds exclusively mugs and coffee cups on the lowest level. Below the coffee drawer I have storage with tools I use less often: an old kettle, different sized Moka pots, a few other pourover brewers, my full supply of filters, etc.

FWIW, my experience with Moka pot starting temp mirrors Lance’s. Everyone recommends to start with boiling water, but I find it easier to control the flow of the brew when starting with room temperature water. I don’t mind waiting the extra minute or so to boil the water in the Moka pot and I don’t have to screw the top to a searing hot aluminum container that I’m trying to hold with a towel.

What is your final time at the conclusion of drawdown and what recipe are you using?

Have you tried adjusting temperature? An ideal brew on lighter roasts does often get into that 95C+ range, but temperatures that high can definitely strip away nuance unless everything else is locked in. I often initially get more complex flavor from slightly lower temps which I then ramp up if extraction is lacking. I see Cat and Cloud recommends to get the water as hot as you can, so 100C, but the coffee you linked isn’t even their lightest roast. I’m not sure I love that recommendation.

I realized I had a typo/brain fart; I used 90g coffee. I was targeting a standard 60g/l ratio with the water cut back per Papa Hoff’s tutorial.

Our chat got me curious, I had some time, and no coffee yet today, so I tried it.

https://i.imgur.com/FcJx6lf.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/0roegdm.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/sxu3ZcR.jpeg

I don’t know Lemmy markdown, so I hope those are visible.

I brewed 90g coffee (some forgettable Ethiopian stuff I didn’t like) and 800g water at 95c in that pot. Poured through that filter over 500g ice. Drawdown was 2:05, so pretty fast. This will easily scale to two or three times this size. Even larger would be doable.

The result is excellent. Cleanup is extremely easy. Far, far better than these beans were hot. I’m kind of surprised how good it is considering this is just slapped together and not adjusted at all for the scale.

It makes me wonder what the point of an actual coffee machine is.

That makes a lot of sense. I think you’re already going to want to get creative so I don’t think you should give up on your ideal workflow.

There are large brewers intended for coffee shops that might be able to do this. I don’t think that’s your ideal route.

A smart brewer could produce a similar profile. But even then that’s a large quantity and pricey brewer for what is essentially a simple process.

You could go even more manual. In a way I think wanting that volume helps. Something like the Clever Dripper, or as it’s used in this recipe the Switch, is mostly being used to hold the filter. You could just go bigger on that and brew with large format filters intended for commercial machines and one or two kitchen strainers. Because it’s immersion you don’t need to worry about channeling or brewer temperature, even pass through isn’t important; the coffee’s already made. Heat 3l water in a pot, add coffee per usual, stir, and then strain at the five minute mark into a large vessel, as one would stock.

Culinarily, coffee is soup.

What does your ideal workflow look like? Is this something you want do six times a week, 500ml at a time, or batch out into two 1.5l batches?

I don’t have one, but this definitely strikes me as a simple setting for a smart coffee machine. I have to think an Aiden or the like would have this functionality, a sort of extremely long infusion up to the volume of its brewing basket and then a standard release. If you’re asking for specific advice on smart brewers, fair enough. I’d be surprised if there isn’t something with an extra large brewing basket.

I definitely think any decent smart brewer could mirror the immersion flavor profile and intensity even if it can’t go full immersion.

Frankly, my first impulse was to just run a Mr. Coffee (or your current machine) with a manual release valve without the carafe inserted and see if you like what you get when you pop the carafe in at 10 minutes. Temperature control would be weird. Probably too small for your purposes?

I would just buy two Clever Drippers and brew them at the same time. The Switch is more versatile, but the Dripper is exactly the right device for this and cleanup is a cinch. If I wanted a big batch, I’d brew all three simultaneously and plop them one at a time on a two liter vessel.

I’m glad you wrote that. Black and White is local to me. I’ve had some of their decaf before and they’re one of the specialty roasters that disappointed me. However, that was several years ago and apparently in the past two years they’ve moved to EA decaffeination. I picked up a bag of their Sugarcane Decaf today and just had my first cup. It was roasted in mid-July, so it’s nicely rested.

It’s a medium plus roast, so I brewed at 90C. Otherwise a pretty standard V60 technique: 40 second bloom, 250g water to 15g coffee. Drawdown was okay, roughly 3:30, I’ll go a bit coarser next time.

It’s night and day better than the last time I had their decaf. Surprisingly nice acidity, distinct cocoa notes, some sweetness. I like their tasting notes. Maybe a bit thin for the flavors in the cup. They rate it a roughly four of ten on their clean to funky scale. Which… maybe? It’s not very funky, but it does have a lot of rich classic coffee flavor.

I’ll certainly be picking up some of their more boutique decaf next time I’m near somewhere that carries it. The Sebastian Ramirez coferments can be a bit too fruity for me but I’d like to try the Ethiopian natural process that’s currently on their website.

Have you A/B tested the steamed water thing? Almost anyone else I’d have ignored the suggestion out of hand, even from him I’m incredibly skeptical.

I feel your pain. It’s a struggle to find good decaf. Even amazing third wave roasters usually fall very short. My usual is Counter Culture’s Slow Motion, which is good, but it’s kind of boring.

I want some decaf in my next Brandywine purchase. Their manipulation in all four or five of their coffees I’ve tried has been really artful and they have a broad product selection. I’m hopeful it will be better than most.

Is Luminous better enough than what else you’ve tried that I should try it myself?

I’ll share the link in the post.

Thank you. It has a tiny bear in it.

That looks really nice. As much as I like boutique coffee, I’m also a big fan of an inky, oily Italian espresso.

Your setup seems pretty solid. Since you’ve gotten into espresso relatively recently, is there anything you’re considering changing and what, if anything, would you have done differently?

Do you leave your Flair on the countertop? I’ve considered getting one, but I always come back to thinking it’s got a pretty substantial footprint, both while resting and when I would move it around to get leverage.