I saw a post once that actually argued bees are aware of the arrangement and generally willingly tolerate the deal. We can tell they know the deal because they produce extra honey to account for the keeper’s cut, and we know they willingly tolerate it because if they found it intolerable, bees are perfectly capable of fucking right off and leaving you with an empty hive.
“Don’t like the rent? Just move somewhere rural lmao” type argument.
I’ve been hit with the “they literally make it for us.” No bro the bees that evolved honey did not do it millions of years ago for the people that weren’t even around back then.
They didn’t evolve it for us, no. The evidence just suggests to me that they find this an agreeable expense in exchange for a solid shelter guarded by a comparative titan. I don’t know exactly what parts of the deal they understand and what parts they like, but they clearly at least know to expect the honey tax.
I mean some animals certainly can consent to some things. There are obviously limitations, and bees may be well within those limits, but I’ve seen pets and farm animals that very clearly understand the deal with “owner is gonna do something unpleasant and then give us a treat” because they offer themselves up for something they initially resisted and clearly still are not fans of.
They “find this an agreeable expense”? They have a choice in the matter? Bees do what bees do in the wild or or in man-made hives. Humans choose to place them in hives.
They produced extra to account for it when they could leave, so it appears to me they at least understand that their current home comes at the cost of honey.
They have a choice in the matter?
They can and WILL leave if abused, so they very obviously do have a choice, yes.
Humans choose to place them in hives.
And if humans want them to produce honey, they’re going to have to give the bees ample opportunity to find a better home and leave.
I saw a post once that actually argued bees are aware of the arrangement and generally willingly tolerate the deal. We can tell they know the deal because they produce extra honey to account for the keeper’s cut, and we know they willingly tolerate it because if they found it intolerable, bees are perfectly capable of fucking right off and leaving you with an empty hive.
I don’t believe they take the beekeeper’s cut into account! They make as much honey as they can all the time.
The rationalizing is off the charts in this thread, do not try to understand, there is no consistency.
You may be right. I had heard that they make extra for it, but I’m having trouble corroborating that.
“Don’t like the rent? Just move somewhere rural lmao” type argument.
I’ve been hit with the “they literally make it for us.” No bro the bees that evolved honey did not do it millions of years ago for the people that weren’t even around back then.
They didn’t evolve it for us, no. The evidence just suggests to me that they find this an agreeable expense in exchange for a solid shelter guarded by a comparative titan. I don’t know exactly what parts of the deal they understand and what parts they like, but they clearly at least know to expect the honey tax.
I know you think animals can consent but they can’t
I mean some animals certainly can consent to some things. There are obviously limitations, and bees may be well within those limits, but I’ve seen pets and farm animals that very clearly understand the deal with “owner is gonna do something unpleasant and then give us a treat” because they offer themselves up for something they initially resisted and clearly still are not fans of.
Yeah the animal I’m talking to clearly consented to a lobotomy
They “find this an agreeable expense”? They have a choice in the matter? Bees do what bees do in the wild or or in man-made hives. Humans choose to place them in hives.
They produced extra to account for it when they could leave, so it appears to me they at least understand that their current home comes at the cost of honey.
They can and WILL leave if abused, so they very obviously do have a choice, yes.
And if humans want them to produce honey, they’re going to have to give the bees ample opportunity to find a better home and leave.